Welcome to Digication
Scholars Conversations.

I'm your host, Jeff Yan.

In this episode, you will hear part one
of my conversation with Jose Rodriguez,

Assistant Vice President of Community
and Belonging at College Unbound.

More links and information about today's
conversation can be found on Digication's

Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.

Full episodes of Digication
Scholars Conversations.

Can be found on YouTube or
your favorite podcast app.

Welcome to Digication
Scholars Conversations.

I'm your host, Jeff Yan.

My guest today is Jose Rodriguez,
Assistant Vice President of Community

and Belonging at College Unbound.

Welcome, Jose.

Glad to be here.

Um, Jose, I, um, I think I, I met you
at a, um, Last fall at College Unbound's

inauguration of its second president,
uh, Adam Bush, and I got to, um, see

you speak in a number of occasions.

Um, and I was just deeply inspired by, uh,
by you, your work and what you stand for.

So I'm very grateful that we got to
have this conversation here today.

I think that people are going to
really love this, you know, hearing

about you, you and your story.

I appreciate that.

So, before we get started, for those
listeners who don't know anything

about College Unbound, again, I
already had sort of mentioned it's its

second president's inauguration, which
implies that it's a fairly new school.

Um, why don't you tell us a little bit,
you know, about College Unbound and, um,

you know, where it is, what it does, and,
um, And how is, how, why it's so special.

I think it's very special.

So go ahead.

Yeah, I think I got to lead with the
fact that it is my Alma mater, right?

So I, I attended College Unbound.

So everything and anything that I say
about the school is primarily from a

alumni perspective or, uh, or student
perspective or student lens, I should say,

so College Unbound was started, uh, by
two gentlemen, uh, two Uh, Dennis Littky

and Adam Bush, uh, in and around 2009 and
really it was meant to be a school within

a school at some point where they were
partnering with different institutions

to provide just a different way of
teaching, uh, to a particular population

of students that weren't being successful
and quote unquote traditional schooling.

Um, that humble beginning, uh, through,
uh, In 2011, I believe a call to action

was basically put out, uh, via social
media where, uh, to both Adam and Dennis's

surprise, the response from the community,
uh, was, wow, we've been waiting for

a school like this our whole lives.

And I think that that's really what
started the maybe we just can't be a

school within a school, uh, conversation.

And, uh, Adam and, and
Dennis really started.

Laying down the groundwork
for what was to come.

In 2015, we received state
approval to be a standalone college

in the state of Rhode Island.

A triumph in itself.

You know, those books aren't
really open that that.

That they're rarely opened.

They were opened for us
and we were allowed it.

Um, that opened us up to be able to
apply for a regional accreditor, uh,

which is NECHE and in 2020, after
a lot of work, uh, we received,

uh, full accreditation from NECHE.

And now, um, College Unbound
offers a bachelor's degree.

Am I right?

Correct.

So a bachelor's degree in
organizational leadership and change.

Um, and we now just don't
operate in Rhode Island.

We're actually in Chicago, New Jersey,
Pennsylvania, uh, and working on Seattle.

And, uh, South, South Carolina.

So, like, yeah, growing the
model is growing because

it's something that's needed.

It's amazing.

And I would love to talk more about
the model itself as well in a bit.

But I think that, um, maybe we
should, um, talk a little bit

more about you as well, Jose.

Um, I know that you've had a, um, you
had talked about College Unbound being

set up for people who might not have
been successful in traditional schools

or traditional sort of, you know, the,
the, the, the, the sort of, uh, American

dream model of, you know, going to K 12
school and then going to college and then

finish a four year degree and then go on
to get a job, that kind of model, right?

Um, And, um, I think that you can
probably speak to that too, because

that's your personal experience.

Now you are, you are an
alum of College Unbound.

Can you tell us a little
bit about your journey?

Yeah, so I can, it's, it's a somewhat
interesting story with a lot of layers.

So, so I'll try to unlayer
as much of it as possible.

Um, I'm what you consider,
uh, or what society would have

considered a throwaway kid.

I'm from a single parent home.

Uh, From, uh, quote unquote, the ghetto,
the slums of the slums, um, and I

dropped out of school in the sixth grade.

Um, so I had the recipe to not be
successful or not to be in academia,

um, because of those choices that I
made early on to drop out of school,

um, and to pursue income and in various
ways, most of which weren't, uh,

legal, uh, that landed me in prison.

Um, but while in prison, uh, I was
reintroduced to education, I should say.

And I was reintroduced to education on
a basic level, meaning I got my GED.

Um, and pretty much after you
get your GED in prison, um, there

really isn't anything for you to do.

So I took a couple of the remedial courses
that our community college, uh, was

offering at the time with the, with the
thought or dream of when I am released,

I am going to go to the same community
college and I'm going to get a degree.

And that's how I'm going to create
change, not just for me, but

for my family, to my surprise.

And, you know, I jokingly say this
all the time, but it definitely was a

pivotal moment, but it was about 2011.

Um, January of 2011, when I entered.

Our community college as a, as a regular
student not being incarcerated and I

take, you know, a regular course load.

So full, full time student
12, 4 classes, 3 credits each.

And one of the classes, which I
found was probably going to be

the most interesting to me was.

Public speaking.

Um, why that was interesting
to me is because for the, I had

gotten out of prison in 2010.

So it had been about a year and I
had spent the last year of that time,

the last year working, uh, speaking
to kids, you know, uh, violence

reduction, preventative work on.

So at the core of what I was doing for
a living now was speaking to public,

maybe not, you know, large groups as
if, you know, like a national public

speaker or anything, but to me, it
was an important part of my journey.

And unfortunately, Because
I speak multiple languages,

sometimes I do mispronounce words.

And I always say this because it's
important to note that just because I

mispronounce a word, it isn't because
I don't know the meaning of the word

or I don't know how to say the word.

But for anyone who speaks multiple
languages, sometimes it, that the

words just get mixed up and, you
know, lost in translation as they say.

Needless to say, my oral presentation,
uh, midterm, uh, I didn't do so well.

Um, I mispronounced a bunch of words,
but it wasn't that, that, that derailed

me or that, you know, put me on a, on
a, really on a path of negativity was

the instructor, quote unquote, and I
use instructor, the term instructor very

loosely, um, said to me at the end of
the class, maybe public speaking isn't a

thing that you should pursue because you
don't really sound intelligent when you

speak, you know, and I, and I, and I say
that and, and I wore that You know, as

a, as a, I, I walked with that because
it was important for me to remember

that if I ever saw that quote unquote
instructor again, that I'd be able to

tell them how wrong they actually were.

Without that incident, I would
have never found College Unbound.

So, in that, uh, maybe about two
weeks after that happened, I had

a chance encounter with Adam Bush.

Um, he was, he was, Uh, we had some
College Unbound students who were

interning at my place of employment,
and Adam just came to check in on them.

And, um, anybody who knows Adam Bush
knows he's a very captivating speaker.

Uh, so he could, you know, you, he,
he, if he engages you in conversation,

you're buying whatever he's selling.

Uh, so that, that led to me just
being curious about what College

Unbound could be because, no,
it's a different way of learning.

You're going to learn this way.

You know, we're going to give you credit
for the things that you've already done.

Why take classes for things
that you've already mastered.

And that really piqued my interest, uh,
so, regardless of the experience that

I had at our local community college,
I said, you know, I'm going to give it.

I'm just going to try one more
time at this college thing.

And if this doesn't work, then, you
know, I'm just not college material.

And that's just something that
I'm going to have to deal with.

Thankfully, I am college material
and I've was able to keep going.

Uh, get out the other side, but that is
the example as to why this school is so

important, whether in, whether for folks
who look like me or folks or, or, or kids

who are just getting out of high school
and are being told by an instructor,

those words, like they're being limited
by the words of the people who were there

or intended to be there to teach them,
you know, and being chopped down in such

a way opened up the space for a school
that like College Unbound to exist.

That's, um, that's, that's amazing.

Thank you so much for sharing that, Jose.

It's um, I remember hearing this, hearing
you talk about this and it was, it was

just so inspiring because I also know Adam
and, and you're right, he can, you know.

Whatever he say, I, I, he
say jump and I say how high.

And, um, and, uh, and, uh, it was,
um, it's just incredible to see how

many individual lives that College
Unbound seems to have touched, but

in a, in such an impactful way.

Um, I, I feel like that every
alum, Everyone that I've met with

at College Unbound that have gone
through the program have something

similar like that to share, right?

Um, that they're, you know, like
the traditional college system,

whether it be a community college or
a K 12 school or whatever, whatever

it might be, had failed them.

And that's only amplified
when you're an adult, right?

Um, it's one thing when a system
fails you when you're a traditional.

College age student and you're going
straight from high school and you got

all these things in place, but it's
amplified When you're a working adult

who's simply just trying to obtain a
degree to better one's life And it's

a story that we hear over and over and
over again to the tune of Folks really

start to believe that, and I say folks
because I felt that way myself, that, all

right, maybe I'm just not smart enough.

Uh, college isn't for me.

This isn't the time for me.

And you immediately start
to beat yourself up.

So it's a.

I'm glad that this space exists.

I'm glad that this school exists.

And that's the reason why, um, because
whether we were the folks who initiated

the wrong or not, we get to right
wrongs for a lot of folks through this,

through their educational journey.

Yeah, that's amazing.

Now, do you want, would you like to tell
us a little bit about, so how, how does

College Unbound, in fact, recognize you
for who you are and let you be successful?

What was that, what is that, like,
what's that actually look like?

What does week one actually look like?

Like, what is the thing that they have
you do that make you feel like, Hold on

a minute, I am inside college material.

So it's this, it's the
sense of community, right?

So you're, you're brought into a space
where everybody is just loving and caring.

Um, so as an institution, we're asking
students to bring their all, the good,

the bad, and the ugly, um, and that,
To me, it's what community means.

Um, you know, the word
community is in my title.

So everything about community
has to be, has to be right.

And knowing that also means that
community members aren't perfect, right?

No one in the community is perfect.

So we have to take folks how they are.

And I think that that was the first
thing that I recognized doing are

my first CU gathering and being in
that space, having a communal meal.

With some peers that I would learn to
love in a few, just in just a few weeks

and, um, just being around those folks
and their ability or their willingness

to just open up and just be free.

It wasn't easy for me, uh, because
of my experience from the community

college to actually be as open, as
honest as I could be with folks, right?

I was afraid that I would be judged
and that, uh, People would put me

in a box as to how I got to where
I was and my experiences thus far.

Um, however, um, CU taught me
and just like they've taught

others to embrace one story.

I embraced my story.

I just felt a million times more powerful.

And as a result of me feeling that power,
I believe at least that I've been able to

open the door for other people to come in,
uh, behind me and have similar success.

That's, that's amazing.

Do you remember what was your,
what was your project at CU?

What was your first project?

So, uh, And I, and I
always state this, right?

Because although, uh, I've been referred
to as a colorful, uh, extrovert,

I'm an introvert by heart, right?

And the first time that I had an
extroverted moment, uh, was during,

uh, And, uh, my, my cohort decided
that I would be the voice for my cohort

in a debate we were having a debate,
um, particularly on gun control.

Um, and I just made a really, I wish I
could remember exactly what I said, but

it was so much in the moment, right?

I said what I said, and I got
people clapped and agreed with me.

And I think that that was
a very empowering moment.

And that's when you realize that,
Hey, I can't do public speaking.

Yes.

Yes, that was the moment.

But overall, what, uh, as, as far
as like my project or things that I

have taken on while being at CU, I
started a nonprofit barbershop, right?

Um, and in a very crowded market,
uh, and CU actually gave me the

tools to be able to, to, to do that.

And the reason why I say it's a crowded
market, um, I was giving quality haircuts

to kids for free in a neighborhood
that probably had 40 barbershops.

Uh, so there, there were a few.

Folks who might have thought I was
cutting into their profits by giving

away a free haircut, but the reality was,
is that I was doing intervention work.

These kids, um, were what the school
district would consider troublesome.

I wouldn't consider them troublesome,
uh, but what the school district

would consider troublesome, you
know, broken homes, no, no, no real,

Finances or anything like that.

So I wasn't taking money from them.

These were kids that weren't going
into their barbershops to begin with,

because they couldn't afford it.

So I think that we need to break that
down even a little bit further for folks

because For many of our listeners who
might have been, you know, expecting

a typical college experience where you
take a course, you take, you read a

book on, I don't know, you know, um,
community, um, community policies,

or, or, or, or, um, Acts of community
services, making social changes, etc.

And then you debate and you might
write a paper and all of that.

But, but, but what you, what you are
describing of creating a nonprofit to

go in and service people in the real
world, to work with real kids, like

what you just described is in fact.

The project that you did
at CU, is that right?

Yeah.

So every, that's not, that's
not common for all these folks.

I think we need to, I think we
need to like, make sure that they

understand that it wasn't just one
of those, like, hypothetically,

that would be a cool project to do.

You actually went and did it.

And so did everyone
else did their projects.

So all, all students at College and
Bowner asked, uh, to come up with a

passion-based project, uh, passion-based,
meaning anything that's going to

move their particular community.

And you know, understanding
that community has a different

definition for everybody, right?

So community could be the neighborhood
in which you grew up in, your religious

community, your home community.

I mean, community as you see it.

So come up with a project that's
gonna better your community.

And at the time I was doing violence
interruption work at a place in Providence

called the Nonviolence Institute.

Well, at the time it was called
the Nonviolence Institute.

The Institute for the Study
and Practice of Nonviolence.

Um, they changed the name and I think for
the better because it's a lot shorter.

Um, needless to say, I was working
with kids who, I quote unquote,

were troublesome, but I would
notice small things about them.

Meaning, you know, hygiene, personal
hygiene wasn't good, and those are things

that are taught, you know, so I figured
that if I could basically kill two birds

with one stone, I can teach them about
hygiene, give them a quality haircut,

and also, uh, talk to them about violence
reduction strategies so that they don't,

they didn't overreact or snap on a teacher
whenever things got rough, and Some of

the things that I learned, one, is that
just the feeling of being properly groomed

allows you to feel better about yourself.

And if you feel better about
yourself, your reaction to things

are a little bit different.

And then second, which was something that
hit really close to home while working

with that population, was that a lot
of these kids get labeled as being bad.

Defiant, Troublesome, but in reality,
some of these kids were just hungry,

uh, they would act up on a Friday
because they knew that once I eat this

lunch on Friday, I don't know if I'm
going to have food till Monday morning

when I get to class for breakfast.

Um, so it actually, through this
program and just being able.

Through the barbershop and being able to
have just simple conversations with them,

I was able to take those conversations and
then go back to the schools, like, these

are the issues that your kids are facing,
and this is the reason why they're acting

the way that they're acting, um, and

in essence, making the
community better, right?

I think that, you know, I think
that that's one of the things that

makes me so excited and so drawn
to what College Unbound is doing.

You know, you never for a moment,

underestimate Your students
themselves, and you know, they come

in and you believe that they can do
the work and they can do the work.

They go and actually do the work and
they all prove that they can do it.

College Unbound has an incredible
retention and graduation rates.

Um, and.

And that every student is
required to do these projects.

And they're not just school projects.

These are real projects that has
real impact on people's lives.

And some live on, right?

And depending on, you know, what the
person does, I guess, but, but these

are, these are not insignificant things.

They have real, um, they
have real customers.

They have real people they serve.

They have real, you know, impact.

And those kids that you worked with.

That you gave haircuts to, I'm
sure had you had possibly changed

their lives in ways that you
probably couldn't even track.

And yes.

And the only reason why I say yes to that
is because, uh, Recently, uh, we, you

know, this past, uh, spring we enrolled,
uh, quite a few folks and I'm just

sitting at the start of the cohort, you
know, just giving our spiel, welcoming

everyone and one of the women that was
in, uh, one of our new students who was

in the audience, uh, walked up to me and
she said, Hey, you don't remember me.

And of course I smiled and was
like, of course I remember you.

You're, uh, so she tells me
her name and she's like, you

used to give my son haircuts.

And okay.

Like, you know, I, at, at that
point I was like, okay, you got me.

I really don't know who you are.

And I used to cut a lot of kids hairs.

So like, give me a little bit more.

She's like, well, he's so and so.

And, uh, you know, he was always
getting, uh, kicked out of, uh, Kicked

out of school, et cetera, et cetera.

But something around the time that
you were giving them a haircut,

something in his mind shifted.

And, uh, he decided that that's
the avenue that he wanted to take.

So he became a barber.

I didn't know.

So he became a barber.

And, you know, after the conversation
with her, I did look him up and

he's a very successful barber.

I mean, like a hundred dollars
a haircut type barber, which is.

Remarkable.

Uh, and

I'm actually feeling kind of old
right now cause he was a little

kid and he's already an adult.

But yeah, uh, he also, uh,
for back to school does all

kids free at his barbershop.

Kids free.

So that one gesture of giving him a free
haircut has had the trickle effect of

one, him finding a career for himself.

But also him wanting to pay it
forward in that kids for school

will get a free haircut at the
beginning of the year from him.

See, I think that this is one of the,
one of those things that, and I, I

also want to talk, I mean, I want to
talk a little bit about the timeline

in which these things happen in the,
in comparison to, um, a regular,

let's say a college experience.

I can tell you, like, this is, you know,
obviously a very much of a, a, a, a

summary or, you know, sort of a, a, a, a
lot of approximation here, but students

in many colleges are now introduced to
things like service learning, where they

go out to the community and do something.

Okay, but they are typically not doing
that until they have been deemed that

they have the basic writing skills
and the basic reading skills and,

and, you know, they have to go through
a number of gen ed courses, etc.

So, maybe it's two, three years
into it that now you're a sophomore,

you are a junior, you're a senior,
you have the opportunity to

go and do it for one semester.

At College Unbound,
that's not what it's like.

Can you tell us a little bit about
that, sort of that, you know, like, the

equivalent of that in College Unbound?

At what point do you, you know,
like, you get in there first,

first, first, first day, right?

And what, at what point are
you doing this kind of project?

Are you welcome?

Are you trusted to do
this kind of project?

Uh, from day one, uh, you come in,
uh, from the recruitment process,

you're being taught, uh, through
what a project can look like.

So you start to think about
what the possibilities are.

Um, but we're a regionally accredited
college, so we have all the same

rigor than any other institution has.

However, um, because we are working
With adult populations who have had

tremendous success, whether in community,
in work, or what have you, they come

with a lot of lived experience and
that lived experience through our

learning in public, uh, department
gets translated into college credit.

So we've had students who.

have come in with zero credits
and graduated in 18 months with a

bachelor's degree because they were
able to put portfolios together for

all the, all the experience, all
the lived experiences that they had.

I think that the anomaly, uh, or
the expectation for colleges to have

folks take courses on things that
they've already mastered is redundant.

And we don't do that here.

Our, the, our person who runs the learning
from experience, uh, department, uh,

Elizabeth Colon is also a person who

the program was kind of developed around
because she was the first person to

benefit from, I think Lizz did it in like
14 months, came in with about 12 credits

and in about 14 months had a bachelor's
degree and was on to getting her master's.

Um, only because she was able
to get through her bachelors

as such a, uh, fast paced.

And I don't mean that to say, uh, to
say it lightly that she made it through

in a fast, fast pace, because she
had put in the work and all the other

things she had done in her life, right?

Uh, we just gave her, uh, credit for it.

And I think that for a lot of our
students, once they realize that all their

lived experience actually has a value,
Um, that it's not a thing they just did.

It was something actually that they
learned with learning outcomes,

whether they saw it as such or not
in the moment, we make sure that

we teach them how to, how to, how
to get that out of any experience.

And I think that's a, that's,
it's just really remarkable.

I know that the, the audience, the typical
student in coming to College Unbound, like

you said, have a rich lived experience
already, so they can translate that.

And I think that, however, You know,
I mean, literally going back to even,

I know Dennis Littky, you know, his,
his high school projects, you know,

called the, the, the med school,
um, and the big picture by the, I

think it's called the Big Picture
Company that makes the "Big Picture

Learning" that makes the med school.

Draws from a very similar set
of, you know, ideas too, right?

The, the, the high school kids
are not, and they were never too

young to go in and start a project.

They were never too inexperienced to
say you're not allowed to do something.

And in fact, I think one of the things
that's most, most exciting about it

is that it's almost like you, You
start your project because that's

something you are so passionate about.

In your case, you, you see that the
world needs a solution for these

unnecessary violence because kids just
did not know how to act otherwise.

So you, you know it.

And it's something that's, it's
hard to read about from a book.

It's hard to read about from a book
because a book could have mentioned

it, but it would have been a paragraph
in, you know, a bigger book somewhere.

Right.

And you don't, you know, there's,
it doesn't point you to go and say,

I'm now going to spend the next
couple of years to go on and make a

difference in this area of society.

Right.

So, I think that that's, it's a
really stark difference in my mind.

But then once you have found your passion,
once you found some meaning in that.

It makes the idea of
the way I look at it is

you might have not done well in
public speaking in that one course

back in a community college.

But you certainly have had to do
a lot of public speaking, right?

In with, with either the kids or with,
you know, groups of people thereafter.

But because now you're doing it with that
passion, with that drive, you just do it.

You just have to do it and you,
you get it done and you learn it.

And you, I, I believe that people
learn things when the drive

comes from a place of passion,
a place of purpose and meaning.

They overcome so much more.

They work so much harder.

They do things much faster.

They learn deeper.

I think there is something about that,
that makes it possible for College

Unbound graduates to finish to program
quicker than a typical four year program.

They are not, they're running, they're
not, they're running the whole time.

They're not sitting around
waiting for someone to feed them.

Hey, this is what you might want to take.

But, but it's a matter of.

The word drive, right, sticks out to me
in, in, in your comments only because, uh,

for a lot of our students, they come with
drive because they're, you know, we were

working with a particular population, like
they only know work, work, work, and I'm

going to get it done because this is what
I got to do to, uh, provide for my family.

They never see themselves as
academics because no one ever

told them that they were.

So the second that they get acknowledged
as such, you can, It's like an

almost instant aha moment where
they're like, oh, I can do this.

And once that I can do
this attitude begins.

It's only, no, no one's stopping them.

And I think that for myself and
for others, I think that's the

reason that we go through CU.

We go through College Unbound
and all of ourselves all of

a sudden find ourselves in.

Graduate programs.

Um, because now we have
been empowered to learn.

We have been empowered to
understand that we can learn.

Um, it was just the institution
that wasn't right for us.

It wasn't that we weren't right.

Um, and it's, it's always a good
conversation when I'm having

folks who are about to graduate.

Uh, come to my office to ask me
about, Hey, what, what program

do you think I should go to next?

Um, and you know, the, the, uh,
bright eyed, uh, and just like

eager to just keep learning.

Here's a preview of what's
coming up next in part two of my

conversation with Jose Rodriguez.

Assistant Vice President of Community
and Belonging at College Unbound.

CU's motto lends itself to being able
to teach wherever there is a need.

If you have a conference room, we
can come in and, you know, that

then becomes College Unbound.

We don't have a building, uh,
and I don't think that we're

ever intended to have buildings.

I think that the motto is that we
will always teach in communities.