Welcome to Digication
Scholars Conversations.

I'm your host, Jeff Yan.

In this episode, you will hear part two of
my conversation with Lizz Colon, Director

of Learning in Public at College Unbound.

More links and information about today's
conversation can be found on Digication's

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Full episodes of Digication Scholars
Conversations can be found on

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You talked a lot about
lived experiences, right?

I want to go back into one of the things
that you had mentioned as one of the first

things that you said, you know, after.

After basically, you know, 20 credits
in the, in the, Community College,

you did a lot of work around, um,
"Lead Poisoning Prevention," and you

worked for the CDC, EPA, and so on.

Can you tell us a little
bit about that work?

I know that it's so far may not have
something, you know, doesn't, may

not connect to, to, um, to College
Unbound, but I think it does.

I think that, you know, We can get a
sense of, for someone who struggled so

hard to stay in school, when something's
on the line, something that matters, she

shines and she became a national respected
expert on the, how does that happen?

Can you tell us about that work
and tell us how that happened?

Well, I mean, so again, it
came from lived experience.

Um, I bought a house.

Um, it was built in 1896.

Um, I had gotten married.

One of my, my, my second child,
um, after moving in the house

only after three months, um, was
hospitaLizzed with lead poisoning.

And, um, there was a whole whirlwind
of things that had to happen, um, and,

and this happened in, in 1996, um, and
that's kind of what led me down that

path into getting involved with my
community and I wanted to know more, um,

there was a meeting at the Rhode Island
Department of Health and one of the,

the nurses Um, that, uh, was a nursing
coordinator for the childhood led o...

for the lead program, um, at the hospital.

Uh, was like, you should come,
and you should talk to people,

and we're gonna have this meeting.

And I walked into this meeting, and
here's people from the Department

of Health, and there's lawyers,
and doctors, and all this stuff.

And here I am, my teacher.

21 year old self, um, walking in and
they're talking about, you know, how

great of a campaign they're doing and
I was like, I was dumbstruck because I

had never heard of lead poisoning before
and I had never, you know, these people

were all, you know, professionals and
congratulating themselves about what

a great campaign and I'm like, I've
never even heard of your campaign.

Like, how is this right?

This doesn't make sense to me.

Um, and, and, I'm also a
person who's very direct.

And so, um, it was like, well, would you
want to be and sit on this committee?

Because we think we need
members of the community.

And I was like, absolutely,
but I can't be the only one.

You have to have more people.

Like, more people like me, in my shoes.

Because I knew it was going
to be an uphill battle.

Um, and so that's kind of what
started and what launched.

I didn't even know what community
organizing was at the time.

Um, I didn't know that I was really
like advocating for other people.

I was just asking questions because
it wasn't, it explains well, and I

didn't understand why these things
were happening and why there was such

a lack of a process or they would
brush it off onto something else.

And, um.

That's my personal inquisitiveness, is
kind of what started that, um, and I

just kept rolling with it, and then I
met this woman, um, her name is Roberta

Hazen Aaronson, and she was, uh, working
as the executive director for the

Childhood Action Project, and she was
like, would you like to come work for me?

And I was like, uh, I don't know,
I don't know who you are, I don't

know what you're doing, I, I'm like
You know, she's like, well, I want

you to be a community organizer.

And I was like, but what is that?

And she's like, everything that you've
been doing, but I want to pay you for it.

And I was like, whoa,
okay, I could do this.

And so that's kind of what started down
this advocacy path, which then turned

into, um, You know, being the leader in
building coalitions and it led to the next

part of, um, you know, lobbying at the
statehouse and, you know, legislation.

It led to, um, 10 years of litigation,
um, in regards to, um, the paint companies

and the way that we had to, um, litigate,
you know, cases for lead based paint.

Um, and, and I was

lucky enough to be part of all of that.

Um, and so because I had that background
and when we talk about lived experience

and I came into College Unbound, it was
like, wow, you know, you've done this.

I could build a portfolio all around
litigation and using, um, you know, and,

and, and, you know, building consensus
and, um, and, and even legislation.

Right.

And the legislative actions
that I had taken, right.

And I covered my civic engagement
classes, um, and it covered my

leadership classes, uh, when I talked
about kind of the hierarchy of.

the organization and the organizational
structures within the Department of

Health, or whether it was on the, the,
you know, the state level or the national

level, or even on a local level, um, I
was able to get, you know, credit for

organizational studies because I was
an industrial hygienist and I did a lot

around, um, you know, lead, asbestos,
um, you know, all kinds of, of, um,

Environmental toxins around heavy metals.

I was able to get credit for science,
you know Uh, and so like I there was

a there were a lot of different pieces
And it was just an amazing journey to

be able to say yeah I've done this and
then be able to equate that to a class

and have enough information To be able
to say like I understand the context.

I understand the criteria I understand
the learning and so when you kind of

put those things side by side, that's
how I was able to get the credit.

But I, I, this is why I
think it's so important.

This is such an amazing story, by
the way, congratulations and thank

you for doing this amazing work.

Because, I really do think that millions
of people are better off because of that,

and that's, you know, it's, it's just,
it's just absolutely fantastic, and, but

I, I, I do want to just kind of go back
to that moment when you said, Oh, my child

got sick, and, and this is what sometimes
lived experience looks like, that you

cannot reproduce, you cannot do, do enough
pretend projects at school to, to bring

the passion out in someone like Lizz.

I think that Lizz, there are many Lizz's
in the world where, where, The pretend

project in schools are not enough to,
to get her attention, get her, get her,

get her to, to believe in something
that goes, I've got to make this back.

Like, I want to see the
world in a better place.

I'm going to do it now.

I'm not going to do a, let's write
a paper about something that might

happen that no one was going to see.

Because I think that's when
you have your problems.

That's when you're getting
red pads all over it.

But when you had to face the real
world, you know, the real legislation,

real, real, real issues, that's
when you go, Whoa, hold on a minute.

I'm going to bring out my A game.

Right?

And I think that that's, by the
way, that's human nature too.

So to me, I, I actually would, you
know, would really also say, I want

to pitch to the educators who are
listening to this, don't underestimate

your students to think that they're too
young, too naive, too little knowledge,

too, too, too, whatever it is, your
excuse are to think that They are not

good enough to do something useful.

I don't think that's true.

Don't you think that's?

I think you're absolutely right.

I mean, I work with students all
day long and I advise students

on, um, you know, their, their
learning and public portfolios.

And so one of the questions I ask
them is, all right, so what do you do?

What did you, what did, what did you do?

How long were you involved in this?

What was your depth of work?

You know, kind of start
with those smaller pieces.

Um, and we've got some incredibly
talented, articulate, amazing students.

And no matter if you can come to a cohort
on any Tuesday or Wednesday night, and you

can go up to any random student and say.

What is your project
that you're working on?

And they will go into the spiel
of everything they are doing.

Um, and it's because of it's
something that you get to choose.

It's something that you
are passionate about.

And so, I think one of the important
pieces in the way that this has been,

um, that this has been rolled out is,
is that not only do you care about what

you're doing, you have people around
you who care about what you're doing.

And so, when you have a community of
people that are invested, and even

though they might be just doing, you
know, different tasks or have different

projects, the fact is, is that they're
supportive of what you're trying to do.

They are trying to Help you get deeper
and learn and reflect and There's

this camaraderie That happens and
when somebody says oh, I can't I can't

I'm just like I'm overwhelmed And
it's like it's okay to take a step

back and take a breath reevaluate,
rework, refresh, revise And keep

going, because it's not a direct path.

There always are going to be bumps in
the road, there's going to be humps,

there's going to be um, these deep
valleys that you have to go through,

and then you come out on the other
side, and, but really embracing

the points of reflective learning.

I think is really one of the biggest
pieces and that's really the key

to what we think of when we have
like a non traditional educational

system like College Unbound.

I have students who are, when they
talk about their projects, I have

a student, um, who, you know, They,
they did a family caregiving portfolio

because, you know, the grandmother
had heart problems and so the daughter

is taking care of the kids, her kids.

She's taking care of her mother.

She has to, you know, she did a ton
of research on her cardiac care.

She had to do a ton of research
on meds, what meds she could use,

couldn't use, how they interact.

She didn't go to class for that.

She had to learn that on the job,
right, in order to be, in order to be

safe and to help her mother through.

And at the same time, she's
also in school full time, works

full time, and has two kids.

And so, those things that you're learning
that, You don't even reaLizze you're

doing, like, taking care of somebody
else and doing research to find out,

like, their, their whole, you know, and
put a plan together of who's gonna do

what and hire a CNA and, like, those
are not just skills people have random,

like, they, they, they have them, but
it's not something like a skill set

you, you, you know or you're taught.

And that's where lived
experience really comes in.

Because, I mean if you're
an immigrant to the U.

S.

and you come here and you go through the
whole process of, of, of becoming a U.

S.

citizen, like that's civic engagement,
and they make you jump through hoops,

right, in order for that process to
happen, and that's a big deal, and that's

creditworthy, but yet, unless you take
a civics class, that's the only way

we're going to actually give you credit.

And by the way, these
are not easy credits.

These were actually.

Gonna be way harder.

I mean, look, the credits that you got
for your 29 years of work could have

been several, several PhDs, right?

What's up?

What's up?

Probably!

Like, but, but, you know, but like, these
are not easy, but these are, you know,

you do them not because, it's because
you are driven by passion, you're driven

by a need that you needed to do it.

And that's, that's important.

I actually did exactly what you said,
which is I talked to a couple of.

Graduates, um, when I came to
visit and just anyone, right,

they're like, what's your project?

And she gave me, there was one student or
alum who gave this amazing, um, project.

She, I think her best friend
got, um, lost her life from

swimming in, uh, in the ocean.

I think it was a reptile, you know,
taken her out and, and she drowned.

And, and the, so this.

Alumnus has in her first, was it
like eight weeks, six weeks when

you start to do this project, right?

To find this project?

She decided that she wanted to create,
uh, provide free swim lessons to children.

And the little did, if you, I mean when
she said it, I'm like, oh my god, why

wouldn't anyone have thought about this?

Because for many inner city kids, many
kids of, um, you know, less privileged,

Swimming lessons does not come for
free, does not come out of nowhere.

Your kids don't just aren't
born knowing how to swim.

You know, parents don't get the
time to go and take them to go swim.

It's a, it's a serious privilege
to go and, and take swim lessons.

And especially people of color, right?

And she said, what if I just
prove and figure out how to

provide free swim lessons?

There would be So many more people
who would not be in that situation

where they could drown just from,
you know, being in the ocean.

And by the way, being in the ocean, being
on the beach is the kind of thing that

most people, you know, if that's not your
lived experience, most people will think

about, yeah, that's just a good sunny day.

We get to enjoy ourselves.

Of course our kids know how to swim
because they took swim lessons when

they were young, but that's a privilege
that not everyone gets to have.

Right.

And so for, for students at College
Unbound, being able to figure that

out and turn it into a project.

This is why these projects are more
successful than any pretend project

that we give to the students otherwise.

Absolutely.

I mean, I think that, you know, a
couple of other things that I was

surprised just recently to know about
College Unbound is that, you know,

we have a 96 percent graduation rate.

I don't know Any other
college that has that.

And yes, we're still small
and we're still growing.

You know, we are the toddler of colleges.

We've only been around
for a few years, right?

We're still finding our footing.

To have the fact that you have
90 cent, 96 percent of your

graduates are successful is crazy.

You know, it's insane.

The other, the other statistic
that I just learned and I was

floored by was that after Our
students graduate College Unbound.

Forty percent.

40 percent end up in a master's
degree program within three years.

And these are mostly students who did
not succeed in traditional education,

had in fact probably dropped out once,
twice, three times, and then come back.

And I mean, we have just, just
thinking about just kind of the

populations of people that, that, that
we have here right now at Unbound.

Um, um, We have a high percentage
that probably over 80%, um, are women.

We have, um, women of color, um, Latinas,
uh, right now kind of at the, the

highest, um, bracket, um, in regards
to, you know, men, women, um, race.

We have, uh, the second highest is, um,
the African American population for women.

here at College Unbound, which is huge.

Um, most of our students dropped out,
stopped out, started college, you

know, um, more than 60 percent started
college at some point, never finished.

That's crazy.

Like 60 percent of our students,
like, never, and, and our average,

so yes, we have students that have
come straight from high school.

Um, they're far and few between.

A lot of CalKIDS want to just go right
into the traditional, which is fine.

Then there are some, um, a lot of our
high school students from the Met,

hidden under the big picture, tend to be
like, I want to go right into something

that I'm already familiar with and
that's where College Unbound comes in.

Um, because they've already had
those experiences in some different

ways, and they want to be able
to continue on that journey.

But on average, our average age is 37.

You know, I mean, we have students
that are, you know, go from anywhere

from, you know, 18 and up through,
through somebody that we have student

right now is in her mid 70s, you know,
and, and for her, College Unboun...,

college was never an opportunity.

And she raised her kids and she raised
her family and she's raising grandkids.

And she said, I never had the opportunity.

Now is my time.

And so, you know, she's
got to figure out a career.

She was a housewife, you know, and
she took care of her kids and her

family and never really had the
opportunity to work outside the home.

And now she has to work outside
the home because that's the

only way she has that income.

And so from going from one thing to
another and not having, you know, some

of those skills in regards and because
she doesn't have a bachelor's degree,

you know, jobs are just, it's this
whole, you know, system that is, is.

It's set up and it's not set up
in a way that you feel like you

can, um, really be proactive or
that you can really get there.

Like if the system is almost in a
way to set you up to fail, right?

Unless you jump through
these particular hoops.

And I think College Unbound is
trying to Take down those barriers.

You have a transportation problem?

Let us help you figure it out.

You want to come to school in the evening?

Let's buy you, let's give you food.

Right?

You need childcare?

We're gonna supply that.

And so, we, we set people
up to be successful.

If someone doesn't show up to class
two times in a row, they get a text,

they get phone calls, what you doing,
where you going, are you good, what

do you need, um, we need to know that.

You know, we also have, um, funds
that we try to utiLizze in regards

to what if someone has a fire?

What if, um, someone is on the
verge of becoming homeless?

Someone lost their apartment,
someone needs help.

You know, rental assistance.

Someone doesn't have heat.

We also have set up ways and
processes to help our students.

Someone's in need of a bed, right?

Let's put a call out to everybody to say,
Anybody know where to get anything, right?

That's how you build your community.

We want to build it up.

Not tear it down.

And so when people step up, wow,
do they step up, do they come out?

It's amazing.

And the support for other students around
even not only just their academics,

but like the peer to peer conversations
that happen around academics, um, and

the people that show up to support,
you know, when you, when we say you

enter College Unbound and you've got,
you know, 400 students at your back,

you know, it really is something.

It's not something that is
just said, like you could feel

it because they will show up.

It's amazing.

It's, it's like, to me, it's like, you
know, seeing, you know, how like sometimes

massive colleges, you know, have their
sports teams, they show up for sports

teams, but this is like, this is for you.

And that, you know, everyone's
showing up for you, right?

It's amazing.

And I, I, I also, um, I think it's,
it's important to say that, especially

with, um, you know, learning in public,
you know, College Unbound's version

of call, you know, give Credit for
Prior Learning, especially for people

like yourself who, you know, had
such, such a, such an amazing lift

experience, Wonderful career already.

A lot of that get translated
into real credit set.

That really means that you can finish,
um, your bachelor's degree in a

fraction of the time that it would
take in a traditional institution.

Is that right?

I mean, we, we.

Traditionally, our four year
institution, we have a four

year bachelor's degree program.

On average, someone coming in with
absolutely no credit can usually get

their degree in about three years.

Um, if you are coming in with a little bit
of credit, Um, or you're coming in with

your associate's degree, which is at least
60 credits, and so you need up to 120.

You're looking at probably a year
and a half to two years at the most.

Um, then you have unique people, um,
who are coming in with a ton of credits.

And they are in and out in one year.

Um, and so it really, you know,
there's a combination of it's not

a, it's not a one size fits all.

There's a combination of, you know,
how much credit are you bringing in?

What classes do you need?

You know, what was able to transfer?

And we're very generous
when it comes to transfer.

We take just about everything.

We can't take, um, You know, there
are some classes that we can't take

if they're remedial or things is
just, you know, certain ways and

certain rules that we have to follow.

Um, but having those and then being
able to say, okay, on top of my transfer

credit that I'm bringing in with me.

But I also have this lived
experience, and how do I build

these portfolios to get them?

Um, and then those are assessed by, uh,
my office, and we have a team of people,

of, um, assessors who have a Master's
Degree or higher, or, uh, have very, uh,

specific expertise in a particular field.

And those are the folks who do the
assessments for us and are able to, you

know, say it was at, um, you know, this
many credits at this level and they're

also given feedback in ways, uh, not
only, um, about their portfolio, but

ways they could also take it to the next
step and make those portfolios deeper.

You mentioned portfolios a few times
and one of the things that, I mean, I

feel like it's pretty clear that yes,
people have done their work, they put

it together in a portfolio and you
get to assess it and it's good, you

know, I think that's pretty clear.

One thing that I sort of wonder,
I mean, I think you've done this,

so maybe you can tell us too.

When you put together a portfolio,
you've got 29 years of experience,

you put together a portfolio,
what does that feel like for you?

And do you, I, you know, are you
learning anything about yourself,

you know, through that process?

Or what's the process like as in it of
itself an education learning experience?

I think, um, I think
it's a great experience.

I mean, I think like one of the
ways that I usually coach students

is to say like, okay, um, you
have all this lived experience.

Like I've had all this
lived experience in my life.

How do you start to
deconstruct what goes where?

Right?

So, make three columns, right?

So, here's your column and your
title, your first one, Leadership,

or your title, your, your next one,
Family Caregiving, and your title,

your next one, Civic Engagement, and
then just make a lot, nobody's going

to see it, but the student, right?

So, then you make a laundry list of
all the things that you've done that

fall under Leadership, all the things
that you've done that fall under Civic

Engagement or Family Caregiving, and
you start to think about not only,

As you have this list and you start
to think about how did I get there?

And so for leadership, how did I
become a leader in my community?

I showed up, I went to some trainings,
I testified on a piece of legislation

at the state house, I talked to senators
and representatives within the state, you

know, I had meetings with the coalition,
I started to like, and so then you can

see, you know what I mean, so you can
really like articulate and then you can

say, oh, and I remember like going up
to the state house on this day and there

were 25 people that were going to testify
in front of, you know, um, The Finance

Committee, and the Finance Committee is
made up of these people, and, you know,

I think one of the things, like, I found
with, with legislative work is, is that,

you know, when you go to the legislature,
there's always these people at, like,

the legis, the legislators having side
conversations as, like, they're doing

this, and I don't know how they can keep
up all these conversations as they're

going, um, and then they're going through
the legislation, and when people testify.

And I always found that when A parent,
a student, or somebody who's out of

the realm of politics shows up to
testify at a legislative hearing,

that person is listened to more than
anybody else in the room because

you're not the "you know" regular,
who shows up to lobby on stuff.

And that makes a huge difference.

Um, And I think that was one of the
things that I found out was really

profound, Because I can go up to the
statehouse and lobby all the time, right?

That was kind of in my role
as a community organizer.

And After a while, they
got sick of my testimony.

I had to bring a fresh
face, a new story, right?

So I always bring somebody new.

And I think one of the things that
when we, when we think about our lived

experience and we think about just how we
would organize these buckets of criteria

to build a portfolio, you also have to
think about the stories of impact, right?

And so I could tell you about my
leadership role going up to the state

house, but I think a bigger impact
is when I brought these three moms.

And they went up there to testify
for the first time, and they were

nervous, and they were scared.

But you could hear a pin drop in that room
because the side conversation stopped.

Right?

Because really, they had something to say.

And that was like a profound
learning experience.

And I think we don't, some, a lot of
times we are so, On the go and moving

from one thing to a next that we just
we don't sit in in the way we should

just ponder and think and reflect and
then one of the things that you learn at

College Unbound is is that in every way
shape or form whether it's in a class

whether it is doing a portfolio whether
it is, um, In your project, there's

a piece of reflection that happens.

There's what is going on right now,
so I'm taking stock in my learning.

How do I look backward at what
I've done and where I've been

and how I got to this point.

And then now I'm going to reflect forward
on where I am and where I want to go.

And because you have that taking stock,
reflecting backward and reflecting

forward in almost every area of College
Unbound, um, sometimes people feel like,

oh my gosh, I'm reflecting all the time.

That's all I do is reflect.

But when you put that on paper, And you
see what you've done in the classes you've

taken or the lip credit that you're able
to get, it becomes extremely profound

because not only is this, it's not like
a transcript, it almost turns into your

resume or like a CV of all of the things
that you'd like, you know what I mean?

It, it, and people will look
back on it and go, wow, I didn't

reaLizze I did that much stuff.

Oh, wow.

Like, that's cool.

I can't, I really did all that?

Like, it's, it's, because we don't,
I think, first of all, as people,

we're very humble, um, and we don't
give ourselves the extra credit.

And I'm guilty of that myself.

I do it all the time.

But at the same time, we are also
not, we don't want to be boisterous.

We don't want to, um, we don't want
to put ourselves on a pedestal.

But yet, I think we need to.

And so one of the things I always
tell students when they're building a

portfolio is, this is your time to shine.

This is your chance to get up on
a pedestal and dance and twirl

and, you know, give everybody
everything that you've got and

everything that you've done.

And you should be able to celebrate
that and be proud of that, right?

And, and be able to, to
be confident in that.

That's why you got the credit, right?

Because it was really good stuff and
it was really something profound.

But most of the time we're just
walking by ourselves and, you

know, pat yourself on the back.

And when somebody says,
Oh, you did a good job.

You don't really be like, but
really, did I do a good job?

What did I do a good job for?

Like, we don't, we just
kept like, Oh, thanks.

And keep going.

Right?

And this is a chance to really
take a deep dive into self

reflection, into your skills.

into your commitment to yourself, to
your community as a student and being

with like minded folks who also kind of
want to be in that space of community

and be like, we can make impact, we
can make things happen and it works.

Yeah, it's, it's, it really is amazing.

I, I'm, uh, I am, uh, I'm so grateful
that you're able to share all this, Lizz.

Um, I think that Lizz, we've
Our time has pretty much come to

an end here for today, for now.

I am so amazed by all the, all of the
things that you and Adam Bush and your

colleagues at College Unbound have been
able to accomplish, and I have little

doubt that, um, you know, in time we
are going to see College Unbound being

a model that will be highly sought
after in a lot of places, because, s...

we are, there are, you know.

There are universities that are
willing to spend more than the

entire budget of College Unbound
to improve their model today.

And they couldn't figure out,
you know, how to do it, right?

And you all have figured out how to do it.

And I think some of it is also
through this lived experience.

So it actually modeled itself, you know,
at the institutional level as well.

You know, it's a, it's
a really cool thing.

Um, uh, well, Lizz, thank you again.

Again, congratulations
on all your success.

And, um, I, uh, look forward to, um,
further, um, you know, um, uh, lot more

interactions with you all, you know,
in, in the coming months and years.

And, uh, meanwhile, Um, for anyone
who's interested in checking out College

Unbound, go to collegeunbound.edu
and um, uh, we'll post to Lizz,

uh, Lizz's, um, social media, et
cetera, um, along with this episode

so you can follow her and also to,
uh, get in, get in touch with her.

Um, do you want to learn more about,
um, uh, Learning in Public, um, You

know, if you're at another institution,
you're struggling with college for prior

learning, this is the place, this is the,
this is the place to go on and check out.

Lizz, am I right to say that
you also have a paper that was

published recently, am I right?

Well, yes, I was, uh, actually involved
in two, um, one that was, uh, one

that was published in regards to, um,
establishing the, the, the, uh, LIP

program, um, when we first initiated
that, and then, um, the second one is we

just did a white paper all on, uh, CPL.

So, yeah.

Yeah, we will put put those as links
into the into into the show notes

so people can go and check it out
Lizz again, thank you so much, and

I hope to talk to you again soon.

Okay.

Thank you for having me This is wonderful.

All right.

Take care coming up next.

We'll be chatting with Jose Rodriguez
Assistant Vice Presidents of Community

and Belonging at College Unbound.

Here's a quick preview.

Just because I mispronounce a word, it
isn't because I don't know the meaning

of the word, or I don't know how to
say the word, but for anyone who speaks

multiple languages, sometimes it, that
the words just get mixed up and, you

know, lost in translation as they say.