Welcome to Digication
Scholars Conversations.

I'm your host, Jeff Yan.

In this episode, you will hear
part one of my conversation with J.

T.

Torres, Director of the Center
for Teaching and Learning

at Quinnipiac University.

More links and information about today's
conversation can be found on Digication's

Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.

Full episodes of Digication Scholars
Conversations can be found on

YouTube or your favorite podcast app.

Welcome to Digication
Scholars Conversations.

I'm your host, Jeff Yan.

My guest today is JT Torres, Director
of the Center for Teaching and

Learning at Quinnipiac University.

Welcome, JT.

Yeah, thank you.

Thank you for having me on.

It's a pleasure to speak with you again.

Yes, um, uh, we've had the fortune of
working with Quinnipiac University Um,

for a number of years and you've been
an instrumental part of, um, um, using,

um, you know, ePortfolios at Quinnipiac.

Um, I'm sure we'll talk a lot more about
that later when appropriate, but first

I really want to learn more about you.

Um, I did, uh, I, I know that you
have, um, been, uh, instrumental

in many things, not, not just
ePortfolio at the university.

You're the director for
teaching and learning.

Why don't you tell us a little bit about,
um, maybe Quinnipiac University and What

a Center for Teaching and Learning means
for those who don't know what that is.

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

So, I've learned that centers for teaching
and learning are very different based

on the institution where they're based.

Uh, so, Quinnipiac, um, prides itself on
being a professional private institution.

That word professional
carries a lot of weight.

It means that we are really dedicated
to career readiness and we're also

dedicated to thinking about what it means
to prepare students to not only join.

Uh, the economic force or the job
market, um, but to also change it, right?

To have that agency to change it,
um, hopefully with the social justice

element in terms of, you know,
we're, we're changing our economy.

So it works for everybody, not just those
with wealth, um, but also how do I make

sure that I can put food on the table?

So I can do that work of change, right?

So it's not, job placement...

It's also professionalization
that requires a certain amount

of critical thinking skills,
creative thinking skills, right?

Again, we're not just matching
people to a workforce.

We also want them to take charge
and lead that workforce based on

ethical decisions that they make.

That funnels down into our Center
for Teaching and Learning in these

pretty ambitious ways and these
pretty interesting ways, right?

So here at Quinnipiac, a lot of
the work that we do is backward

design is reverse engineered from.

The current market, you know,
what are those current jobs?

Um, what are the skills
needed for those jobs?

For instance, um, we know through surveys
like Glassdoor that curiosity and creative

thinking, a curious mindset and creative
thinking are really, really important.

People are saying they want, right.

Our tomorrow's leaders need to be
able to look at problems in new

ways, and they need to be curious.

They need to not just follow standard
protocols, especially if we know

those protocols don't work for
everybody, but how do we change those?

So when If we're reverse engineering
and we're designing backwards from

that, the center here, it really
works closely with courses to

help align classroom assignments.

Um, I'm really big on authentic
assessment, where like, don't

just assess knowledge for the
sake of assessing knowledge.

Assess knowledge in the same way that
students will be assessed when they are

in their particular fields of study or
their disciplines or their professions.

Right.

So how can projects become
aligned with the real world?

Um, how can we break down that binary
between the classroom is one world and

then the real world is another world.

How can the classroom become a real world?

So it's a lot of, um, a
makerspace approach, right?

So the teach, the teaching and learning
center here works with faculty chairs

and program program directors to
reflect on what those goals are.

What are we doing?

What we're doing.

And then how do we start
making those changes?

So it becomes less of a classroom
space and more of a space that

transitions us into that real world.

So a lot of case studies, lots of
problem solving, there's particular

pedagogical approaches that align with
a university like Quinnipiac that calls

itself a professional institution.

Um, and so I, I have to adapt
and make sure that, you know, my

training in educational psychology
provides the relevant resources and

approaches for the context here.

That's lovely.

And I, I think that that's, I'm sure
we'll, we'll, we'll have a chance

to talk about, you know, today's
sort of people's percept, general

perception of higher education.

...oh yeah.

You know, um, And there are, I mean,
statistically, we have seen a drop

in enrollment, especially in, um, in,
uh, community colleges, um, and some

of the numbers are stark, you know,
it does not, it's, it's not, it's

not just a slight decrease in some of
it, maybe have kickstarts by COVID or

maybe enhanced by COVID that dropped.

Um, but it's, it's a little bit scary, the
general perception that, that exists in,

in, in, you know, for higher education.

I, I sort of, I want to, I want to talk
a little bit about, I, I, I, I, by the

way, been following a lot of your work
throughout, you know, the years and

I've, I've read some articles, I've been
to many of your presentations, so I'm a

little fanboy, fanboying um, you know,
and, um, I, I remember that, um, you have,

um, done some work in doing inclusive,
um, sort of designing, um, Um, designing

your classroom to be inclusive, designing
assignments, designing your whole course,

the nature of the course to be inclusive.

Um, what does that mean?

And, you know, like you talked about
this idea of balancing, Hey, you know,

there's workforce development and,
you know, trying to make sure that

people can, can, can, can benefit
financially and, you know, being

able to support themselves, but also
there's this other part, which is.

Making society better, making changes,
making it the way, you know, equipping

them with the ability to do all of that.

And I have this feeling that this
inclusive classroom was something that

I've always been so interested in.

What does that mean?

And what can you talk a
little bit about that?

Yeah, absolutely.

Thank you.

That's, that's one of my favorite topics.

And, um, right now we're doing our
semester kickstart at Quinnipiac.

So, um, about three presentations
this week on that topic.

Um, so I'll start at what everyone thinks
is the starting point, um, of what does

it mean to have classrooms that are
diverse, equitable and inclusive, right?

We get.

Stuck on that acronym of DEI
because of how it's been taken up

in popular press, um, covered in
popular media where we think that

means critical race theory, right?

We think that like every child from
kindergarten to college is being taught

this legal theory of critical race theory,
or we think it means that we need to

know the right terminology and we need to
almost compete in the diversity Olympics

to show like how inclusive we are, that
we have all the right language, right?

And I'm sharing this as a starting
point because I think, you know,

We look at the climate that we're
in and it's so politically charged.

You know, you're talking about, um,
the drop off in college enrollment.

A lot of that is politically motivated.

Like you can look, um, I'm talking
about, um, some data that's, that I

read from the book, "What We Value",
published by Lynn Pasquerella,

president of AAC&U (American Association
of Colleges and Universities.).

And historically, um, from around
the sixties, we've seen this drop

off in trust, largely from people who
register as Republican voters, right?

But that's not the case so much anymore.

Now we're starting to see trust in
public colleges and universities.

Almost, it's not completely level,
but almost level out where even

people who are registered as
Democratic, who historically, again,

um, in recent history, have been
supportive of higher education.

There are issues as well around trust
and it's coming around DEI, right?

Like, are we as inclusive
as we say we are?

Um, and so challenges are everywhere.

And I think a lot of it
is focusing on competence.

Like, are we competent in DEI?

And then we have, you know, the
workforce is also responding in

these really interesting ways.

Um, when it comes to, you know,
ESG or DEI initiatives in certain

corporations, depending on where you
are in the company or in the country.

So there's also a skillset that's
expected by particular employers in

terms of being able to be inclusive.

And so it's a lot of noise and that's
really what I'm just trying to say.

There's a lot of noise around it.

And for me, when I work
with educators, I see.

Inclusivity as being a very human thing.

For me, it just comes down to can a
student see themself in this class?

And there's so many ways that they can
or cannot see themselves in that class.

If I'm, um, a student and I sit down
in the class and I look day one, I'm

looking at the syllabus, I'm looking
at the reading list and I notice No, no

scientists, um, are of a Latino heritage.

No scientists share my backstory.

I might be a little bit
more disengaged, right?

Um, I might not be as invested or maybe
I still am for other reasons, but now

those are largely external because
I don't see myself in this space.

Um, and so for me, that's all
we're talking about when we meet

in the inclusive classroom, are we
giving opportunities for everybody

to see themselves in this room?

So I think about the word belonging.

I think that carries a lot of weight.

In terms of how we design an inclusive
class, are we creating communities

where people feel connected?

Are we creating communities where my
goals and my interests are aligned

with the outcomes of this course?

Um, but the content makes sense to
me and has personal relevance, right?

Like I'm just talking
about human connection.

I'm talking about empathy.

I'm talking about belonging.

I'm talking about being excited to come
to class because I not only feel safe

there, but also encouraged to be my
best self, regardless of my race, my

gender, my identity, my ability, right?

I have that encouragement, and
I feel that I can do that here.

Man, I want to be your student.

It's the exactly the type of things that
it feels so much more so just common

sense, you know, like, do you feel engaged
as someone that you can see yourself?

You know, you have that very natural
sort of, um, do you feel that warm and

fuzzy feeling about, hey, when I'm here,
you know, do I, do I feel that way?

Exactly.

I feel like, oh man, I'm getting shunned.

Even if it's no one said anything
to you in your face about it.

Exactly.

You know, I, and again, my
background's in educational psychology.

So I see inclusive classrooms as not
just being a trendy moment or not

just being warm and fuzzy, although
I know what you mean and that's

really important, but there's also
cognitive effects to it, right?

So if I'm in a class and Somehow, in
some way, my defensiveness is triggered.

Maybe, again, like, maybe there was
a microaggression, an unintentional

microaggression, or maybe the faculty
member can't pronounce my name or

won't pronounce my name, and any kind
of defensiveness that's triggered, I

have cortisol production, my amygdala
is activated, and it's, I'm worried

more about self preservation than I
am about what's being done in class.

Now, if I get those warm and fuzzy
feelings as you talked about, right, I

get, If the instructor made an intentional
choice to help me feel welcome, to

help me feel connected, to encourage me
explicitly that I belong here and I can

do what this class is designed for me
to do, that defensiveness comes down.

I feel more relaxed.

I am literally, I have opened up more
cognitive resources to be available to

do the hard work of learning, right?

It's not just like a trendy movement.

It's not just social justice.

It's literally how our brains work.

And I think that's, I think I've heard
you and others talk about this as being

sort of like growth mindset by design.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

If you can get into that mindset,
how could you be receptive of the

kind of things that you're going
to try to try to learn and try

to experience in the classroom?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Um, so I want to learn a little bit
more about how JT Torres come to be.

Because you have these, I mean,
look, you are, you obviously,

you have your PhD in education
psychology and, you know, a lot of.

There's a lot of knowledge, you know,
from sort of the institutions, but you

also are, if I believe I'm right, you
are, you are, you are, um, uh, from Cuba

originally or your family's from Cuba?

Is that right?

My family, yeah.

I was born in Miami, Florida.

Yeah.

My family's from Cuba.

What?

Tell us a little bit about what you
were like growing up and how will that

sort of shape you to, to be, you know,
um, to, to, to who you are today.

Yeah, I think, um, I'm not sure how
controversial you want this podcast to be.

Um, but so, um, yeah, so I, I've
had a rocky road with education.

Um, you know, part of it is because
of my, my family's background, but.

I actually don't know.

I don't, I'm not going to even
attempt to try to psychoanalyze

myself, but I did have a rocky road
with education where I largely did

not see myself in it as a child.

Um, I like, not only was I growing up in
Miami, Florida, which is a highly, highly

diverse, uh, city, a city that grew in
diversity before it was able to grow in

the infrastructure to support diversity.

Right.

Um, so not only did I grow up in that
environment, but I also have ADHD.

So sitting down in classrooms
for a very long time as a child

was very, very difficult for me.

Um, so there were lots of calls
home to my, to my parents.

Um, you know, there, I had to go to
speech therapy because not only did my

brain work in different ways than my
mouth could, but I was also juggling,

right, the broken Spanish at home
with the broken English I was trying

to learn and combining them together.

Yes, I went to speech therapy.

Um, I had all sorts of behavioral
issues and episodes in high school

that led to problematic, um, outcomes.

Like, for example, I'll
tell this one story.

I, I hit this band in high school
where I was frequently skipping school.

Um, I, I didn't see myself there.

So if I didn't see myself there,
then why would I want to go there?

I felt more connected with my friends
when we would skip school and go

home and play video games, because
playing video games, I felt capable.

I was in control of the world.

Even if it was a virtual
world, I had the agency to do

whatever it is I wanted to do.

And so that's what I would do
for a little bit until my mom.

Got a job in the attendance
office at the, at the high school.

Wow.

She went, she, she really went for it.

Yeah.

I mean, do you know, do you know how much
trouble you you're in when your mom has to

do a career change just to like, just to
like, make sure you're, you're in school.

Um, and then, and even then, you
know, like we would drive to school

and I, I went to this large urban
high school in central Florida

that looked a lot like a prison.

I mean, there were, there were.

Barbed wire fences around it.

There was a police guard
you had to go into.

It was not a welcoming environment.

And so my mom would drive me into
school, park in the parking lot.

She would go into the attendance
office to start her day.

And then I would just
walk to my friend's car.

We would leave school and then come
back at three o'clock so I can meet

her in front of the attendance office
to get in the car and despite all

that scheming, you would get in
the car and she would still ask me,

she was like, how was school today?

And, you know, I would, I would try
to give her, you know, the normal.

You know, BS answers that we would
always give, like, it was fine.

But then, like, after some follow up
questions, she would just call me out and

say, You do realize I work in attendance.

I know you were not at school today.

What is wrong with you?

Um, you know, and I, I, I didn't
have the language to explain to her,

like, why I felt that I had more
agency at my friend's house playing

video games than being at school.

Um, And, and so like these,
these challenges happen.

I went to a community college.

Um, I, first semester, I did
pretty well, but then I, I

stopped, um, attending college.

I, I, I started working at a
restaurant on Disney property.

Um, this is in Orlando, Florida,
and started making some good cash

working at a, at this restaurant,
and in my very short sighted life

at that moment, I, I could just
do cash and then not do college.

And so I did that for a while
until I had this random professor.

I say it's random because
it was in an elective that I

never really saw myself in.

It was a computer science
class and I never really had

aspirations to do computer science.

I was in the class cause I loved
video games and someone told me that

I should learn a computer science.

And so.

I was in this class not doing well
in community college and the faculty

member emailed me and said, um,
asked me why I don't come to class.

And so I wrote, I was honest and I wrote
back and told him what I do and told him

about the video game obsession that I had.

And then he said, can you come to class
next week and then stay after class?

I promise you're not in trouble.

I just want to introduce you to som...

to somebody.

Um, so I did, and he introduced me to a
group of students who were designing their

own games, programming their own games.

He's like, they're forming a club.

Why don't you just hang out with them?

And that changed everything.

Like, once I realized that my interest
could connect with what I was learning,

even though I didn't become a computer
scientist, I never took another computer

science class again, but that faculty
member, through that connection, um,

helped me get into creative writing.

And that's what I majored in as
an undergrad, creative writing.

And then I became fascinated with
the story that I'm telling, um, in

the video games that we were, you
know, with my group of friends.

We're writing video games,
we're designing them.

A lot of them, like 90 percent of
them, never came to fruition, but just

the thinking through what this game
would be and what these stories are.

I became very fascinated with, um, the
cognitive effects of storytelling, um,

how that shapes our identities, how I'm
a totally different person in two years

because of my new love of storytelling.

Um, and then that took me from the
MFA inquiry to writing to Ed Sykes.

It was just, it was a blur.

It was like a montage.

Like imagine you're watching a movie,
just a montage of clips to some pop music

from that moment of constantly getting
in trouble, constantly trying my best

to get out of the education system, to
staying in it for the rest of my life

because I realized that's where I belong.

Because of this one random encounter
where someone said, that thing you're

interested in, it matters here.

That's, that's just amazing.

That's awesome.

What was.

What was the, your favorite video game or
games when you were to, you know, doing,

playing that with your friends house?

Oh, easy, easy.

Oh, yeah.

Legend of Zelda, for sure.

Legend of Zelda.

And the, and the reason, right,
um, there's so, if you have any

experience with Legend of Zelda,
it's a lot of implied storytelling.

There's no voice acting in the game.

It's a lot of reading.

Um, there are kind of episodic
events through this epic narrative.

That you piece together in your
own mind, um, I think this is true.

I think the main character of Zelda, like
Zelda's the princess that you ultimately

save, the game's named after her, but
the character you control is named Link.

The reason, I think, the reason his name
is Link is because that protagonist was

ultimately designed for the player to
project themself into that protagonist.

So no matter, you know, Link is kind of
androgynous, um, he's kind of, you know,

Ambivalent and who this character is,
and that's by design because the whole

idea I think from Nintendo was that you
would see yourself in this character

and that's, that fascination for me, um,
just completely captured all my interest.

And, and I could imagine that many of
you are, I mean, I'm not, I don't know

what the, what the competition is.

So, so, so if you weren't doing
that, which you just described

with so much passion, right?

I think anyone can.

Here, and if you are watching the video,
you can like literally see him light

up, like talking about Legend of Zelda.

Um, but, so what's the
competition on the other end?

In the classroom, what
would you be doing instead?

Instead of playing Legend of Zelda?

Yeah.

Yeah, um, yeah, this might be the good
transition into ePortfolios, but like,

doing meaningless, uh, Assessments, right?

Like doing meaningless work,
like work that I don't see the

relevance in my, in my life, right?

Um, at that time, at that time, right?

And, um, I learned how to
make those connections later.

And then I also was fortunate enough
to have faculty members who explicitly

made those connections for me.

Like this, um, computer science
professor I had years ago.

But yeah, the alternative to a
video game, to someone like Link,

who lets me project myself into
the environment is, do busy work.

Um, you know, how often have we been
told in school, you need to know this

in case you need to know it, right?

Like it's no math.

Um, you don't need to like algebra,
for instance, it's like, just in

case you might need to know algebra.

Like I've never used algebra.

Like maybe I have, I don't know.

Like I didn't retain enough.

My background's in English language
arts, so sorry for the, the math

shade that I just threw there.

But, um, right.

It's, it's, if we don't.

Use it if you don't see
that relevance, right?

Then we don't practice it.

We don't incorporate it into our memory.

And yes, so much of education
has always been just in case.

So this approach, like video games, have
directly impacted how I approach education

and how I approach the Center for Teaching
and Learning, where I want everything to

be just in time, not just in case, right?

I want people to be so immersed in the
moment that when they run up against

the challenge and they don't know
how to respond to that challenge, The

faculty member swoops in with, here's
what you need to know right now.

And then I can incorporate that.

Here's what I need to know
to overcome this challenge

that develops in the schema.

Right.

That develops in the long term memory.

That's what we call active learning.

And that's also what we call agency.

You are awesome.

Oh, you're awesome.

Thank you.

Well, I'm awesome.

Just listening.

I feel it.

I love that.

Um, you, you are talking about, you
know, engaging students and doing things

that, that mean something for them.

You know, things that are
like, you know, their projects.

There are, there are things that are
not, you know, I actually, I don't know

whether you hear this a lot, but I see
this a lot, which is people talk about

project-based learning, but there are
really sort of a couple of different

levels of project-based learning.

I think there's like the project-based
learning where someone designed the

whole project to just every step
that you are supposed to go through.

To me, that's not really a project.

It's kind of better than like the
truly non project-based learning, but

it's not really like a real project.

It's not a project that
you, you get to be part of.

You're just like, you know,
almost like following Legos.

Like, step one, step two, step three.

Look, it's not bad.

But, it's like way better
than that in my mind.

Absolutely.

And, and so, can you talk a little
bit about project-based learning

or these kind of more, You know,
active learning is a more, more,

much more engaged kind of learning,
the just in time kind of learning

that, that, that you were talking.

Can you give us some examples?

And I think you had, we were
talking, you were about to talk

about potentially ePortfolio.

Please feel free to throw that in there.

Um, how, what's an example of that?

What does it look like in the
real classroom for someone who,

you know, so far has said, all
right, this is abstract idea.

Yeah, of course.

You're telling me.

You know, dessert tastes good.

I get it, but give me a real dessert.

Describe it.

Yeah, absolutely.

Um, I think a lot of it comes down to
the gradual release of responsibility.

I know that's a contested term in
educational spaces, but I think it's

helpful, um, as a heuristic to think about
how much as faculty are we willing to

gradually release of our responsibility
over the learning environment,

over the students, over the course.

Um, we want that to be gradual and
want that to be part of a process.

If I do the single assignment prompt as
you just described it, where I lay out

every single step and students get that
up front, they're just following a script.

I have not released any
kind of responsibility.

I've kept it all, I've marked it all down.

Um, students don't get much
of a choice in the matter.

That word choice is the,
is the secret sauce.

That's key, right?

We want multiple opportunities in
project-based learning, um, active

learning, flipped classrooms, no matter
what the model is, no matter what the

fad is, um, I think of these, these
pedagogical terms like diets, right?

Like a new diet comes out and then
people follow it for a little bit.

They fall off the diet, the same diet
comes out, but it's repackaged under a

different name and then everybody jumps on
it again, but it's still the same thing.

Um, and that's essentially what we're
talking about with active learning.

It's.

How many opportunities do
students have to make decisions

based on what they're learning?

They don't get a lot of opportunities
to make decisions, right?

Like we tell them how
they're going to be assessed.

We tell them what assignments to complete.

We tell them what to know.

And part of that is justified because
yes, we are the content experts.

We know what they should know.

And you, it kind of defies the
definition of being a student.

If you already know what you need to know.

That's why it's a gradual release of
responsibility and it's more Um, it's

more collaborative than it is linear.

Now, what this looks like, I think
AI has actually really helped us

clarify what this looks like for,
because of chat GPT, for example,

um, the single assignment prompt.

It's dead.

It has to be dead by now, right?

If you're a student in my class and I
give you that single assignment prompt

that tells you everything you should
do step by step, all you have to do

is copy and paste that in the chat
GPT and you'll get your final product.

But if I take that single assignment
prompt and I break it up, and I say,

instead of having one prompt or one
description, we're going to go through

this in phases and steps, like step one.

Decide a topic for your project.

That's a lot of cognitive work.

We overlooked that.

We think because, you know, we've pursued
our interests as faculty, as scholars.

We've pursued our interests for so long
that interest is second nature to us.

We don't remember what it's like for
me and, you know, being that video game

player who was skipping school to not
realize that my interests mattered here.

That takes a lot of cognitive and
socio-emotional work to know, you know,

what counts and what's included and
do I feel safe enough to include that.

So, choosing a topic and having people,
having students have time to decide

what they would like to explore.

That takes feedback, that takes
community, that takes process.

Once they have that topic, maybe
asking them for a justification.

Why that topic?

What about your lived experience
has led you to this topic?

The same way you asked me, um, how did J.

T.

Torres came to be?

I literally asked my students that.

Almost the second week of the semester
when they're deciding their topics.

How did you arrive here in this room?

Why did you select this topic and
what are you hoping to do with it?

Lots of thinking with that.

They don't know what's coming next.

They don't know that this topic is
going to actually outline their semester

project is going to become their capstone.

It's going to become their career.

They don't have to think about that.

It's right here, right now
in this moment, what matters.

And then breaking that down.

Okay, well now you have a topic.

Now you've told your life story.

Next thing we need to know as scholars
is what's been written about it, right?

Like what, What is the
literature out there?

What's the landscape?

What are the theories?

What's the evidence?

And then doing some kind of literature
review and gathering, um, information and

sources with or without AI and chat GPT.

This is where ePortfolio comes
in really, really handy because

it makes learning visible.

It makes that process visible as a
digital story that we can visually see.

And maybe with hyperlinks and videos
and all these modalities to just

deepen our engagement with the topic.

And, and then from that
literature review, right?

Like, all right, now we
have all these sources.

What did you notice as the
missing elements, right?

Like, this is what we claim
that to know about this topic.

Like, let's say someone
chooses climate justice.

Um, and we know that, um, there are
much higher rates of pollution or

ecological disaster around communities
of color or communities who are

living in low, um, income, um, areas.

And so if we know that to be true,
then what's the missing element?

What can we do?

To advance this conversation to
provide some kind of social change

based on this knowledge, right?

And so we're just taking it step by step.

I've thrown away the single
assignment description.

I don't use it at all anymore.

And I was, I was not using it
before AI, but definitely not now.

Um, because.

I want students to stay on their toes.

I don't want them to know
exactly what's coming next.

I like that element of surprise and
dramatic tension since I pull from

my experience as a creative writer.

But also, if they don't know what's
coming next, they can't game the system.

And if, and that fact that that
suspense is there and that tense,

That, that tension is there.

That also means engagement and
interest and curiosity are there.

I love that.

It is basically thinking of
classes like playing a video game.

It's just Yep, exactly.

Awesome.

That's, so like now
it's pretty transparent.

Like, why I do what I do.

It's all because of Legend of Zelda.

Well, it all goes down to the There
is something that I, I want to

circle back to that I, I just love.

Um, you know, you had From the very
get go, you talked about Quinnipiac

being a professional school that cares
about students that can come out to

change society, to make changes to
the world, right, in meaningful ways.

Um, I think that this is a big part
of something that I, I see in, in

all different kind of contexts.

Um, when I, you know, a lot of people talk
about critical thinking skills, you know.

Oftentimes critical thinking skills,
people are referring to almost as

a, as a problem solving skills.

It's like, yeah, the questions,
how do you get to the answer?

And I think that there's that critical
making skills that Questions forming

skills that actually, I think some
people can easily, easily argue that's

actually part of critical thinking as
well, but that's not how it usually

translates into the classroom.

Oftentimes, you know, it's like, here's
all the questions you get to answer,

but what I really love about what you're
doing is, no, no, no, no, hold on.

You are coming with the questions and
you're answering them because if they

don't get a chance to ask questions,
how, how are they going to be able to.

Feel the agency and the responsibility
and the rights to go on and make

changes to the, in the world.

Exactly.

Cause if they, they're
always like, no, no, no.

The question to be asked,
you just have to answer it.

Well, hold on a minute.

Who gets to ask the questions?

Exactly.

Right.

Do you just like, does
questions just always exist?

There's just like facts, you know,
somewhere in the air, we can just

go in and answer it, it doesn't,
it doesn't work like that, right?

Someone's actually coming
up with the questions.

It's in the view.

If everyone's just answering, you know,
um, answering them, it's just half of

the, it's just half the experience.

To me, that's just not good, you know?

Exactly, exactly.

And you're also defining
critical thinking really well.

Um, and I say that because I, I know
that the definition for critical

thinking is very subjective.

Um, APA has one definition.

Um, if you look at critical
pedagogy and critical scholars,

they have a different definition.

Definition that focuses more on
critiquing systems of power, right?

So it's, it's all over the place.

Um, but I think one of that universal
elements is that ability to ask questions.

Um, and that is, and I think that is
something that we take for granted.

I teach a lot of first year
courses, first year writing.

Um, I really, really love the
first year experience of higher

education because it's this massive
transition for human beings.

Um, not just for students, just for humans
to take, to embark on this new journey.

Regardless of whether they're traditional
students and they're, um, exploring

independence for the first time, or
if they're students who are making

career changes, students returning
from, um, returning from military

service, or students transitioning.

Um, from prison back into the
community, um, these populations are

going through massive transformation.

So I love this identity because how
can you not be full of questions in

this massive transformative moment?

But teaching first year courses, one
thing that I have found is When I, when

I first started teaching, I would come in
right away, day one, and the introduction

to the course, our icebreaker was, what
question do you have about the world?

What questions do you
have about the world?

At first, it was just silence, right?

Like, it was almost like people were
waiting for me to tell them what questions

they should have about the world and
how I've had to learn to scaffold that

Even that process in terms of first,
you start with some kind of narrative.

Like, who are you and why are you here?

All right.

Based on that, what questions
do you have about the world?

Or what was your past experience
right before this one?

Um, where were you working?

Where were you living?

Who were you living with?

What questions do you have based on that?

But it had to provide some kind
of context or starting point

because we don't offer a lot of
opportunities to ask those questions.

And that is a fundamental
element of critical thinking.

And there's also a politics to it, right?

So I've, um.

I showed this example, um, when I, when
I taught, um, Environmental Literacy, um,

in, at Quinnipiac in our Interdisciplinary
Studies program, um, The politics

of, as you said, who gets to ask a
question is latent with power, right?

Who has the power to ask a
question is very different, right?

Like that's, that's not
the same for everyone.

And we could see those politics play out
in terms of certain dominant systems.

Preferring one question over another.

So the example that I share with
my class is the green revolution.

Um, in the sixties, where we, where we
figured out, um, how to mass produce

food, because the question we were
asking was, how do we feed the world?

Now, if you look behind the scenes,
who was asking that question, a lot

of it was the large agricultural
industry who wanted to increase profits.

And so feeding the world more cheaply.

Incentive, but the rest of us heard
that question of social justice.

We were like, yeah, we
should feed the world.

But what we know about the introduction
of synthetic fertilizers and all

these harmful farming techniques is
we actually created a more dangerous.

Ecological Environment, and I use the
word ecological to say like not just

for the soil, but also for the kinds
of foods we were creating, which were

much more process based, much more
sugar based, much more carb based, and

we actually introduced new problems
that weren't there because we were

asking a very profit seeking question
rather than a truly equitable question.

Here's a preview of what's coming up next
in part two of my conversation with J.

T.

Torres, Director of the Center
for Teaching and Learning

at Quinnipiac University.

You know, first thing, plagiarism
is older than AI, right?

Like, we know that that this has
been a concern for many years, um,

for everybody, and this goes back to
our, our relationship with assessment

that's more about accountability
than it is about improvement, right?

And, and it's not.

We haven't been so concerned with, let
me assess where you are, low stakes, so

I can see where you are, so I can help
you improve wherever you are, right?

It's always been, let me assess where
you are because this assessment is going

to have implications for your financial
aid, for your scholarship, for your

career, for your ability to say it.

Like we just create all these
pressures that we inadvertently

message to students, you better pass
regardless of how you pass, right?